Discussion:
Spellforce: Is it for crpgers? A review after 30 hours.
(too old to reply)
Crpgnut
2004-01-16 19:48:18 UTC
Permalink
I decided to purchase this game before it was available in the USA, so I
bought it off Ebay. I've been playing the game for a couple of weeks now,
off and on,
and still haven't decided if it's my cup or tea or not. Let me preface this
post with the fact that I rarely play anything other than crpgs. The only
strategy games that I've ever played were the Heroes of Might and Magic
games.

Spellforce seems to be a simplistic RTS game with a twist. The general of
all the armies in the game is a character created by you. Your avatar is
something called a Rune Warrior. This is an immortal soldier whose soul is
bound into a rune. Death is an inconvenience, nothing more. This avatar is
straight from a fantasy crpg. You have typical stats: Strength, Dexterity,
Stamina, etc., that
each start at 25 points. You have 30 points to distribute to these to decide
what type of avatar you want. If a White Mage, ie healer, you'll choose
Wisdom and
Charisma just like you would for a D&D cleric. If a Heavy Combat specialist,
you'll choose Strength and Stamina. You are not forced into class choices if
you want to specialize in one school, you can, or you can try your luck as a
Jack of all trades. Sounds like a crpg now doesn't it?

The problem for crpgers is that the hero is often an afterthought on several
maps. Each map contains several areas where you can explore with just your
hero and maybe a few other heroes. Your avatar can summon other heroes
who have stats that cannot be changed by you. All experience earned by them
goes to your character. This is kinda fun but you will need to build an army
on
most of the maps in the game. This is the non-fun part for me. Building a
settlement and an army can take a couple of hours real-time on every map.
There is no automation of the army building. You have to summon workers,
find materials, build buildings, summon army units, form parties and then
march them to enemy camps. It's nearly the exact same steps for every single
map. The only difference is that the type of units change every 3 or 4 maps.
You'll start with human units, then elven, dwarven, orcish, dark elven, and
finally trollish units. Each one has different looking buildings but it's
the same
boring steps to create each.

The game is real-time and this can be problematic too. Let's say you're
building a camp in one part of the map and exploring with your heroes in
another part.
If you run into battle with your heroes at the same time your camp gets
attacked
you have to constantly switch viewpoints to keep everyone alive. This can be
quite hectic! If you stay on one party too long the other might get wiped
out. AI in the game is very weak. Soldiers will not protect non-combat units
without specific commands to do so. Sometimes you want to hide your base but
your allied units will follow enemy creatures to their base and you'll get
discovered before you're ready. Hero units have no AI of their own. They
won't cast a single spell or initiate combat without instructions. If you
set them to hold position and guard an area, they never strike the first
blow. They wait until your units are whacked before fighting back. Sometimes
they won't engage even if other units are being attacked. Scripts would have
helped this game immensely.
If you command your heroes to automatically heal wounded units if you have
x amount of mana, that would be great. Remember Baldur's Gate had this.
A fighter hero could automatically attack the strongest or weakest member
of the enemy, using any special attacks as needed. None of this made it into
the game, for whatever reason.

Combat reminds me of Divine Divinity. You click on a monster and keep
attacking til one of you is dead. It isn't unusual to have 50 monsters on a
screen
at a time. It gives the feeling of melee. Your hero can be surrounded by
weaker enemies and come out unscathed. That part is very fun. Item drops are
common and mostly random. There are merchants to trade with, but 90% of what
you use, you find. Graphics are top-notch. Most of the programming was
focused on graphics and it shows. Buildings and maps are beautifully drawn.
Creatures look good and there are several nice touches. A wolf will
occasionally stop what it's doing to scratch at a flea, etc. The quests are
all
extremely straight forward. No thinking to get in the way at all.

Each time you raise a skill you have to raise the school that teaches that
skill too. In effect you get one useful point per level:

Let's say I'm a fire mage. The school for fire is Elemental Magic. I get two
points to spend. One point to raise Elemental Magic and the other to raise
my fire magic. A 20th level character could be at best a level 10 fire mage.
That's if he spent every single point on developing fire magic. It's a good
idea to put at least a few points into a combat school so that you can
attack when you're out of mana.

As you can tell, I both hate and love various aspects of the game. I like
the avatar and running around with a small party of heroes. I like the
graphics.
The sound and music are fine. Item collecting and dressing your avatar in
all your well-earned booty is great fun. You can dress your hero characters
up too. Most items will not work for all characters. Each has one or more
requirements before allowing you to equip it. You might need to be of a
certain level or have a certain level of ability in a skill. This is cool.
My main problem with the game is its RTS components. I dislike collecting
wood, stone, etc
on almost every map. I hate building up camps every time. Gaining levels
takes a long time and you only get to increase your skills 2 points for each
level.

Conclusion: I guess the bottom line is that I'm still playing the game. I
don't
think I'll finish it. Eventually I'll get bored of making 15 building camps
with
80 unit armies. That part of the game will wear out my enthusiasm for the
good crpg parts. I do feel that I've gotten my money's worth out of the
game.
joe~V~3838
2004-01-17 15:44:03 UTC
Permalink
Hey Crpgnut, nice write up........
one question, is there a movement speed control setting ? Sure hope so..
like in Warcraft series.....
Is there a difficulty setting ???

thanks

joe
Post by Crpgnut
I decided to purchase this game before it was available in the USA, so I
bought it off Ebay. I've been playing the game for a couple of weeks now,
off and on,
and still haven't decided if it's my cup or tea or not. Let me preface this
post with the fact that I rarely play anything other than crpgs. The only
strategy games that I've ever played were the Heroes of Might and Magic
games.
Spellforce seems to be a simplistic RTS game with a twist. The general of
all the armies in the game is a character created by you. Your avatar is
something called a Rune Warrior. This is an immortal soldier whose soul is
bound into a rune. Death is an inconvenience, nothing more. This avatar is
straight from a fantasy crpg. You have typical stats: Strength, Dexterity,
Stamina, etc., that
each start at 25 points. You have 30 points to distribute to these to decide
what type of avatar you want. If a White Mage, ie healer, you'll choose
Wisdom and
Charisma just like you would for a D&D cleric. If a Heavy Combat specialist,
you'll choose Strength and Stamina. You are not forced into class choices if
you want to specialize in one school, you can, or you can try your luck as a
Jack of all trades. Sounds like a crpg now doesn't it?
The problem for crpgers is that the hero is often an afterthought on several
maps. Each map contains several areas where you can explore with just your
hero and maybe a few other heroes. Your avatar can summon other heroes
who have stats that cannot be changed by you. All experience earned by them
goes to your character. This is kinda fun but you will need to build an army
on
most of the maps in the game. This is the non-fun part for me. Building a
settlement and an army can take a couple of hours real-time on every map.
There is no automation of the army building. You have to summon workers,
find materials, build buildings, summon army units, form parties and then
march them to enemy camps. It's nearly the exact same steps for every single
map. The only difference is that the type of units change every 3 or 4 maps.
You'll start with human units, then elven, dwarven, orcish, dark elven, and
finally trollish units. Each one has different looking buildings but it's
the same
boring steps to create each.
The game is real-time and this can be problematic too. Let's say you're
building a camp in one part of the map and exploring with your heroes in
another part.
If you run into battle with your heroes at the same time your camp gets
attacked
you have to constantly switch viewpoints to keep everyone alive. This can be
quite hectic! If you stay on one party too long the other might get wiped
out. AI in the game is very weak. Soldiers will not protect non-combat units
without specific commands to do so. Sometimes you want to hide your base but
your allied units will follow enemy creatures to their base and you'll get
discovered before you're ready. Hero units have no AI of their own. They
won't cast a single spell or initiate combat without instructions. If you
set them to hold position and guard an area, they never strike the first
blow. They wait until your units are whacked before fighting back. Sometimes
they won't engage even if other units are being attacked. Scripts would have
helped this game immensely.
If you command your heroes to automatically heal wounded units if you have
x amount of mana, that would be great. Remember Baldur's Gate had this.
A fighter hero could automatically attack the strongest or weakest member
of the enemy, using any special attacks as needed. None of this made it into
the game, for whatever reason.
Combat reminds me of Divine Divinity. You click on a monster and keep
attacking til one of you is dead. It isn't unusual to have 50 monsters on a
screen
at a time. It gives the feeling of melee. Your hero can be surrounded by
weaker enemies and come out unscathed. That part is very fun. Item drops are
common and mostly random. There are merchants to trade with, but 90% of what
you use, you find. Graphics are top-notch. Most of the programming was
focused on graphics and it shows. Buildings and maps are beautifully drawn.
Creatures look good and there are several nice touches. A wolf will
occasionally stop what it's doing to scratch at a flea, etc. The quests are
all
extremely straight forward. No thinking to get in the way at all.
Each time you raise a skill you have to raise the school that teaches that
Let's say I'm a fire mage. The school for fire is Elemental Magic. I get two
points to spend. One point to raise Elemental Magic and the other to raise
my fire magic. A 20th level character could be at best a level 10 fire mage.
That's if he spent every single point on developing fire magic. It's a good
idea to put at least a few points into a combat school so that you can
attack when you're out of mana.
As you can tell, I both hate and love various aspects of the game. I like
the avatar and running around with a small party of heroes. I like the
graphics.
The sound and music are fine. Item collecting and dressing your avatar in
all your well-earned booty is great fun. You can dress your hero characters
up too. Most items will not work for all characters. Each has one or more
requirements before allowing you to equip it. You might need to be of a
certain level or have a certain level of ability in a skill. This is cool.
My main problem with the game is its RTS components. I dislike collecting
wood, stone, etc
on almost every map. I hate building up camps every time. Gaining levels
takes a long time and you only get to increase your skills 2 points for each
level.
Conclusion: I guess the bottom line is that I'm still playing the game. I
don't
think I'll finish it. Eventually I'll get bored of making 15 building camps
with
80 unit armies. That part of the game will wear out my enthusiasm for the
good crpg parts. I do feel that I've gotten my money's worth out of the
game.
Werner Arend
2004-01-19 08:43:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by joe~V~3838
Hey Crpgnut, nice write up........
one question, is there a movement speed control setting ? Sure hope so..
like in Warcraft series.....
Is there a difficulty setting ???
No movement speed control. But you can set the game to easy. This
does have significant impact.

And well, you *can* play most maps with your avatar and companions
alone, if you so choose. Monster spawning does only activate when
you activate a monument of a certain race in order to build the
typical RTS-style base. If you don't, enemies are limited to the
set the map starts with, which you can defeat on your own, on
most maps.

The big drawback is that you won't get nearly as much experience.
This may cost you several of the 30 possible levels in the game.
You will only be able to reach level 30 if you play RTS-style
on all maps where this is possible (all but two).

I usually play in three phases: explore with your avatar and
companions and kill the enemy scouts, build a base and defend
against the hordes until the onslaught is reduced to a trickle
(this can take some time), then destroy the enemy camps and solve
any remaining side-quests.

All in all, I like this game. Granted, both the RPG and the RTS
parts are lighter than in any pure RTS or RPG, but the game has
style. The most beautiful screenshot-worthy scenes I have seen
in *any* game to date (which other game spawns threads like
"where in this world would you want to live"?), the simplistic
conversations nonetheless tell beautiful stories that bring the
world to life, the setting is interesting and the character-
building features continue to draw you onwards to play yet
another map.

There are big flaws: simplistic AI, unit, class and race imbalance,
(A fighter avatar plays so much easier that it's almost
pathetic, and MP is a joke), economic imbalance, lack of information
about your own units, performance issues and bugs (the unpatched
version isn't really playable, on some machines it won't even
install correctly). Even so, I find myself addicted and have just
started my second run through the game.

Werner
joe~V~3838
2004-01-19 15:38:34 UTC
Permalink
Hey Werner, thanks for the good reply.........
Post by Werner Arend
Post by joe~V~3838
Hey Crpgnut, nice write up........
one question, is there a movement speed control setting ? Sure hope so..
like in Warcraft series.....
Is there a difficulty setting ???
No movement speed control. But you can set the game to easy. This
does have significant impact.
Well, I hate that, no movement speed control, I think it's an important
control in a rts game, especially when playing against a computer.
Like Warcraft, I'm glad they use a speed control, I can play against computer
ai on hard with there health at 70% and speed on slow and win. If there was no
speed control I'd be probablly playing against normal ai and just barely winning...
To many units to control at normal speeds...
Still sounds like a decent game, hope they have a few more patches to improve
the ai...
thanks

joe
Werner Arend
2004-01-20 08:07:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by joe~V~3838
Hey Werner, thanks for the good reply.........
Post by Werner Arend
Post by joe~V~3838
Hey Crpgnut, nice write up........
one question, is there a movement speed control setting ? Sure hope so..
like in Warcraft series.....
Is there a difficulty setting ???
No movement speed control. But you can set the game to easy. This
does have significant impact.
Well, I hate that, no movement speed control, I think it's an important
control in a rts game, especially when playing against a computer.
Like Warcraft, I'm glad they use a speed control, I can play against computer
ai on hard with there health at 70% and speed on slow and win. If there was no
speed control I'd be probablly playing against normal ai and just barely winning...
To many units to control at normal speeds...
I used to hate it, too, but the control scheme works extaordinarily
well. You don't need to right-click on an enemy to attack (although
you *can* do that) - you can TAB through the enemies at descending
strength and set each of your predefined groups or heroes to attack
by clicking on its sword icon (or alternatively on spell icons in
the case of a magic-using hero), so if there's a particularly
annoying boss enemy you need to take out fast there's no need for
fast-and-exact clicking, just hit TAB (remember, strongest appears
first) and click on the sword icons of particular groups and/or
heroes. It's a new control scheme for things like this, and I can
tell you it works so well that I wonder how I have ever played
other games without it. It only gets confusing if the strongest
enemies are very far away, but you can also (1) cycle through
more enemies with the TAB key, the use the attack icons, (2) left-
click on a particular enemy, then use the attack icons, (3) attack
by right-click in the conventional way. All-in-all, it's about the
best control scheme I have seen so far for these things.
So, the absence of speed control doesn't bother me at all - and I
started the game thinking like you about it.

Werner
Sarah Jaernecke
2004-01-18 09:26:41 UTC
Permalink
Crpgnut scrawled the following into the Great Almanac of
comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.rpg:

Thanks for the review. Before its release, Spellforce was one of my
hopes for the year but the more I hear about it the more glad I am that
I didn't rush out and buy it immediately. The non-existant AI and
enemies who cheat like mad would have killed the game for me since I'm
hopeless at twitch games in which you have to micromanage everything.
Graphics are top-notch. Most of the programming was focused on
graphics and it shows.
What rig are you running this on? From what I have heard, the actual
system requirements are completely out of proportion to the ones stated
on the box -- would you second that?
Werner Arend
2004-01-19 08:58:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sarah Jaernecke
Crpgnut scrawled the following into the Great Almanac of
Thanks for the review. Before its release, Spellforce was one of my
hopes for the year but the more I hear about it the more glad I am that
I didn't rush out and buy it immediately. The non-existant AI and
enemies who cheat like mad would have killed the game for me since I'm
hopeless at twitch games in which you have to micromanage everything.
There's a way that's not so hard to do most maps (which I usually take,
since it nets more xp as well as being suited to players who don't
play RTS much): Build a base, build *big* defenses and wait the enemy
out. Enemy attacks will start with small groups, gradually increase
to numbers that seem overwhelming (that's what the big defenses are
for), but after some time, the enemy will run out resources (no matter
in which way they are counted behind the scenes), and attacks will
almost cease, excepting an occasional two-unit force, which is easily
defeated. There's only one map with infinite enemy spawn (as far as I
can tell) from demon gates.
You can also set the game to "easy". You can change that setting while
you play, so if you want a normal game when you go exploring with
your avatar and an easy RTS part, you can have that.
Post by Sarah Jaernecke
Graphics are top-notch. Most of the programming was focused on
graphics and it shows.
What rig are you running this on? From what I have heard, the actual
system requirements are completely out of proportion to the ones stated
on the box -- would you second that?
I'm playing on a medium-strength machine: XP2200, 512 MB RAM and
GFTi4200. The game runs reasonably in 1024x768 for most of the time
if you don't set "Shadow effects" to anything above normal. Shadow
effects make for a big performance hit (I think it's the biggest
issue apart from resolution), but the game is so much more beautiful
that I take the hit and play the jerkier version, from which you can
conclude that it is still playable that way. Usually I have
performance problems when I play in the third-person perspective in
areas with many buildings (there the game *does* become unplayable
with "high" shadows), especially at night when there are additional
light sources, or if I have many units in my army (still playable
but response is occasionally sluggish). It's also advisable to wait
a few seconds after saving a game before doing anything else.

Werner
Christian Seitz
2004-01-19 10:20:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Werner Arend
There's a way that's not so hard to do most maps (which I usually take,
since it nets more xp as well as being suited to players who don't
play RTS much): Build a base, build *big* defenses and wait the enemy
out. Enemy attacks will start with small groups, gradually increase
to numbers that seem overwhelming (that's what the big defenses are
for), but after some time, the enemy will run out resources (no matter
in which way they are counted behind the scenes), and attacks will
almost cease, excepting an occasional two-unit force, which is easily
defeated. There's only one map with infinite enemy spawn (as far as I
can tell) from demon gates.
Most undead maps have infinite spawns. There are some maps where
defending is hard. There extra map numbered 8A(8B?) is really rough
if you don't clear the map with your avatar. Several maps are much easier
if you don't build a base. Building a base start the spawn of enemies on
most maps. Defending with towers just gives you alot of experience.


Christian Seitz
Werner Arend
2004-01-19 10:53:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christian Seitz
Post by Werner Arend
There's a way that's not so hard to do most maps (which I usually take,
since it nets more xp as well as being suited to players who don't
play RTS much): Build a base, build *big* defenses and wait the enemy
out. Enemy attacks will start with small groups, gradually increase
to numbers that seem overwhelming (that's what the big defenses are
for), but after some time, the enemy will run out resources (no matter
in which way they are counted behind the scenes), and attacks will
almost cease, excepting an occasional two-unit force, which is easily
defeated. There's only one map with infinite enemy spawn (as far as I
can tell) from demon gates.
Most undead maps have infinite spawns.
Not so. I have played most undead maps in the way I described, and
the only infinite spawns were the occasional one skeleton from some
of the ruins in Greydusk Vale. I placed towers at interesting points
between the ruins and they took care of them.
There are places where enemy armies of a fixed size are
present. Until you trigger certain events these armies will
respawn to their original size, no matter how many of them you kill.
After you trigger the event, though, they're just normal armies.


Werner
Christian Seitz
2004-01-20 10:23:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Werner Arend
There are places where enemy armies of a fixed size are
present. Until you trigger certain events these armies will
respawn to their original size, no matter how many of them you kill.
After you trigger the event, though, they're just normal armies.
That what I meant when I talked about large infinite spawns.

Christian Seitz
Werner Arend
2004-01-20 14:43:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Christian Seitz
Post by Werner Arend
There are places where enemy armies of a fixed size are
present. Until you trigger certain events these armies will
respawn to their original size, no matter how many of them you kill.
After you trigger the event, though, they're just normal armies.
That what I meant when I talked about large infinite spawns.
Hmm. I can only say that this is rare. I can think of only three
instances now - the 10 undead guarding the entrance to the
Fortress in the Howling Mounds (you can kill those once the gate
is open), the Wolf Elite warriors guarding the entrance to the
Briarwolves' town in Farlorn's Hope (you can make them go away),
and the orc firemages guarding the entrance to Brannigan's camp
in the Wildland Pass (they don't re-spawn once you have destroyed
the towers). Any more?

Werner
Christian Seitz
2004-01-21 07:37:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Werner Arend
Hmm. I can only say that this is rare. I can think of only three
instances now - the 10 undead guarding the entrance to the
Fortress in the Howling Mounds (you can kill those once the gate
is open), the Wolf Elite warriors guarding the entrance to the
Briarwolves' town in Farlorn's Hope (you can make them go away),
and the orc firemages guarding the entrance to Brannigan's camp
in the Wildland Pass (they don't re-spawn once you have destroyed
the towers). Any more?
I noticed this first when you had to made it past a pass held by orcs.
The defenders would always respawn. This also happens on several
other maps. On undead maps they often end when the "level" boss is
killed. On map 7 hordes of undead come out of the portal until you
kill the undead boss guarding the portal. The same thing happens
on map 9 with the undead caves.
Christian Seitz
Crpgnut
2004-01-21 16:27:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sarah Jaernecke
Crpgnut scrawled the following into the Great Almanac of
Thanks for the review. Before its release, Spellforce was one of my
hopes for the year but the more I hear about it the more glad I am that
I didn't rush out and buy it immediately. The non-existant AI and
enemies who cheat like mad would have killed the game for me since I'm
hopeless at twitch games in which you have to micromanage everything.
Graphics are top-notch. Most of the programming was focused on
graphics and it shows.
What rig are you running this on? From what I have heard, the actual
system requirements are completely out of proportion to the ones stated
on the box -- would you second that?
Sarah,

I'm running this on a much lesser system than Werner and the game is
playable.
I run the game on two systems. A P4 1.4 with a 64meg Nvidia MX400 card
and a AMD 1.2 gig machine with a Geforce 4600. Both machines lag quite a bit
in large battles, but are otherwise fine. I turn off the higher level
shadows as well. Both machines have 768 megs of ram.
Sarah Jaernecke
2004-01-22 13:00:17 UTC
Permalink
Crpgnut scrawled the following into the Great Almanac of
Post by Crpgnut
I'm running this on a much lesser system than Werner and the game is
playable. I run the game on two systems. A P4 1.4 with a 64meg Nvidia
MX400 card and a AMD 1.2 gig machine with a Geforce 4600. Both
machines lag quite a bit in large battles, but are otherwise fine. I
turn off the higher level shadows as well. Both machines have 768
megs of ram.
Thanks to both of you. Heh, the game still sounds interesting so maybe
I'll keep an eye out on further developments.
--
Sarah Jaernecke
Nightfire --==(UDIC)==--
(***@web.de)
Kookie Jar's quote of the day:
"Analysis: Reference: 'lippy'... argumentative, disputatious,
contentious, quarrelsome. What?! I must object, master, this is untrue!"
- HK-47 proves that he *is* lippy; Knights of the Old Republic
Nick Vargish
2004-02-04 15:32:39 UTC
Permalink
I just played some of the Spellforce demo over the weekend. I say
"some of" because I was bored to tears by the "gather resources and
create an army" portion of the game.

This seems to be less of an RPG-RTS hybrid and more of a routine RTS
with RPG trimmings.

The RTS portion is very standard fare, and pretty nonsensical from an
RPG standpoint. It would have been MUCH cooler if your avatar
recruited peasants and militia from the villiage, rather than
summoning them from a shrine.

Ah well, glad they released a demo. I might have been tempted to buy
this game. I'm sure it will appeal to some, but not to me.

Nick
--
# sigmask || 0.2 || 20030107 || public domain || feed this to a python
print reduce(lambda x,y:x+chr(ord(y)-1),' Ojdl!Wbshjti!=obwAcboefstobudi/psh?')
Crpgnut
2004-02-04 21:46:17 UTC
Permalink
The demo does a lousy job of showing off the rpg aspects of the game.
I'm still playing this and while I dislike army building I've gotten used to
that aspect. Once you've built 5 or 6 armies that part comes naturally
and doesn't take much concentration. The rpg aspects take place, mostly,
in the side quests available. I'm about midway through the game and I've
participated in 30-40 sidequests. Most are of the go here, kill that, and
bring me a whazit to prove yourself. Several are of much better quality
however. Here is a side quest that shows a little of the rpg-ish parts of
Spellforce: Minor SPOILERS are contained below:

There is a hermit on one of the maps and he's sick. He asks that you
go visit a healer in a certain village. She is one of the few who know
how to make a remedy for his ailment. When visiting the healer she
refuses to make the antidote for his problem because the hermit is
a murderer. You have two choices here: 1. make the healer give the
name of another healer with the knowledge or 2. accept a potion that
will ease the man's pain but not heal him. If you chose one, the game
plays out with the next healer wanting you to knock off some bandits
who had robbed him and retrieve his wallet. He'll then make the remedy
for the hermit. Once you give the hermit the remedy, he immediately attacks
you for no apparent reason. The hermit dies quickly because you're a hero
and he's a hermit :) If you chose two, the game plays out thus: you take the
potion back to the hermit and he explains that the healer is correct he has
murdered innocents. He explains that he was seduced by an evil dryad and
she stole a lock of his hair during their encounter. With this she concocted
a spell that causes the hermit to become insanely jealous of anyone he sees.
He
thinks that they are out to steal his woman, if male, or to try to compete
with
her, if female. He asks the hero to confront the wicked dryad and retrieve
his
lock of hair. I found this to be a fun and very crpgish quest in the game.

'nut

Werner Arend
2004-01-19 09:38:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by Crpgnut
Spellforce seems to be a simplistic RTS game with a twist. The general of
all the armies in the game is a character created by you. Your avatar is
something called a Rune Warrior. This is an immortal soldier whose soul is
bound into a rune. Death is an inconvenience, nothing more.
Death costs you about 10% of a level advance in experience points. A bit
more than an inconvenience, but yes, death is not permanent.
Post by Crpgnut
The problem for crpgers is that the hero is often an afterthought on several
maps. Each map contains several areas where you can explore with just your
hero and maybe a few other heroes. Your avatar can summon other heroes
who have stats that cannot be changed by you. All experience earned by them
goes to your character. This is kinda fun but you will need to build an army
on
most of the maps in the game.
Not so. See my other post for an answer to that.
Post by Crpgnut
This is the non-fun part for me. Building a
settlement and an army can take a couple of hours real-time on every map.
There is no automation of the army building. You have to summon workers,
find materials, build buildings, summon army units, form parties and then
march them to enemy camps. It's nearly the exact same steps for every single
map. The only difference is that the type of units change every 3 or 4 maps.
You'll start with human units, then elven, dwarven, orcish, dark elven, and
finally trollish units. Each one has different looking buildings but it's
the same
boring steps to create each.
The game is real-time and this can be problematic too. Let's say you're
building a camp in one part of the map and exploring with your heroes in
another part.
I usually avoid playing like this. I simply don't go exploring if my
camp has defenses that need watching. Build more towers and place ranged
units between them and make them hold their position. Then you can go
exploring and the fights at the base usually won't need watching. The H
key (=hold position) is your friend. There are many people who don't
realize they can do this and become frustrated with the game.
On maps where enemies don't have non-magical ranged attack units, you
can usually set up a defense that you can leave unattended as long as
you like.
Post by Crpgnut
AI in the game is very weak. Soldiers will not protect non-combat units
without specific commands to do so. Sometimes you want to hide your base but
your allied units will follow enemy creatures to their base and you'll get
discovered before you're ready.
Again, press the H key. For defense, place a row of melee units in front
of ranged units and press H. Have a couple of healers in the back (don't
forget to make them hold their position, too) so they'll heal the front
line, and wait. You melee units will attack other units in melee range
and your ranged units will attack everyone.
Post by Crpgnut
Hero units have no AI of their own. They
won't cast a single spell or initiate combat without instructions. If you
set them to hold position and guard an area, they never strike the first
blow. They wait until your units are whacked before fighting back. Sometimes
they won't engage even if other units are being attacked. Scripts would have
helped this game immensely.
Indeed. For this reason, I found the "Aura" type spells the most useful
for heroes, since you activate them and they work automatically as long
as there's mana left or until you deactivate them.
And ranged units and heroes *will* attack everything in range. Melee
units will only rush the enemy if a unit is damaged and even ignore
damage to buildings about one step from where they're standing. Urgh.
Really bad AI.
Post by Crpgnut
Each time you raise a skill you have to raise the school that teaches that
Let's say I'm a fire mage. The school for fire is Elemental Magic. I get two
points to spend. One point to raise Elemental Magic and the other to raise
my fire magic. A 20th level character could be at best a level 10 fire mage.
That's if he spent every single point on developing fire magic. It's a good
idea to put at least a few points into a combat school so that you can
attack when you're out of mana.
You're wrong in that, on two counts: you get 2 points per level, that
means you have had 40 points to spend when you're level 20. Now, skill
level is capped, and you can only get to level 9 when you're level 20.
Which means, you can do two things with your skills:
(1) Raise one category ("Elemental Magic") and *all* of one's
subcategories (Ice, Fire and Earth) to the maximum possible
level, and have a few points left for some minor skill.
(2) Raise two categories and take one subcategory from the first and
two from the second. You will not be at the highest possible level
for all of them for most of the game, but if you reach level 30 you
*will* have level 12 in everything.
So yes, you *can* be the very best in all three elemental schools,
all three schools of white magic, etc. Only if you choose to spread
things become more difficult.
Post by Crpgnut
As you can tell, I both hate and love various aspects of the game. I like
the avatar and running around with a small party of heroes. I like the
graphics.
The sound and music are fine. Item collecting and dressing your avatar in
all your well-earned booty is great fun. You can dress your hero characters
up too. Most items will not work for all characters. Each has one or more
requirements before allowing you to equip it. You might need to be of a
certain level or have a certain level of ability in a skill. This is cool.
My main problem with the game is its RTS components. I dislike collecting
wood, stone, etc
on almost every map. I hate building up camps every time. Gaining levels
takes a long time and you only get to increase your skills 2 points for each
level.
I can see your point, but I do think that building effective armies can
be quite interesting, especially since the races are very different not
only in looks but also in how they play. The RTS part isn't my most
favorite either, but there are scenes to remember. I remember playing
Leafshade yesterday, one of the more difficult maps where you really get
hordes advancing on you for some time. I played a part of this in the
third-person perspective since most of my units did well on their own,
and I don't think I've seen a scene like this in any game before:
standing there in front of your army and seeing a horde of goblins,
orcs and bandits running strait at you, seeing the bolts fly from the
towers and the arrows from your crossbowmen, seeing your mad berserk
ally, Einar, rushing right into them and laying about with his sword,
retreating when he's almost dead until your clerics heal him and he
immediately runs out again, while you yourself go forward and
attack the enemy crossbowmen the others can't reach. It was really
a mad battle scene, and I have never felt so much in it in a game.


Werner
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