Gothic 3 - Mora Sul gameplay bug

Post by Lazarus
I've just encountered a bug for the second time which affects the
storyline in a major way.
I won't put in a SPOILER ALERT 'cos I ain't a-gonna mention specifics
apart from in general. But there's this sentence to forwarn you all
anyway, so NYAAH! :D
Similar to other towns, there's an intertwined series of quests to get
to the city boss of Mora Sul, which continue with his participation. Of
the 3 times I've played this game, I've always completed all the
external quests I could before approaching the city bosses. In the last
2 games there has been a bug on my approaching the boss where he
immediately turns hostile. Of course, this means the whole town goes
red... but both times ALL of the Hashishin, all over the world have
immediately turned hostile too, whether I liberate Mora Sul or not!
This automatically breaks a whole series of quests (you can't chat with
someone who'll kill you on sight!) and removes quite a few "future
quests" from the game.
It's NOT part of the story line, it's definitely a bug. I suspect it
has something to do with completing one of the external quests BEFORE
meeting with the boss, a bad bit of scripting. :(
You can, of course, accept the change of status quo and play on with all
Hashishin as hostile and ignore the lost chances for EXP. I am. The
main quests still work... or seem to, anyway. It does make some of them
become quite a bit more difficult to pull off though.
So, if Mora Sul's boss tries to kill you the first time you have a chat,
give serious thought to going back to an earlier save game. Unless you
like doing things the hard way? ;)

This is by design. If you free too many cities the bosses in the
remaining ones become hostile. It can happen with orc-controlled cities
as well.

Don't ask me how the bosses know you're the one responsible for the other
cities. Maybe they have palantir.

--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/hackingvista/

Lazarus

2006-12-13 06:44:41 UTC

Post by Lazarus
I've just encountered a bug for the second time which affects the
storyline in a major way.
So, if Mora Sul's boss tries to kill you the first time you have a chat,
give serious thought to going back to an earlier save game. Unless you
like doing things the hard way? ;)

This is by design. If you free too many cities the bosses in the
remaining ones become hostile. It can happen with orc-controlled cities
as well.
Don't ask me how the bosses know you're the one responsible for the other
cities. Maybe they have palantir.

Yes, but not in this case. I hadn't freed /any/ cities in Varant, was
still doing the "extra" quests before going on a liberation spree. ;)

Nostromo

2006-12-13 06:47:31 UTC

Post by Lazarus
I've just encountered a bug for the second time which affects the
storyline in a major way.
So, if Mora Sul's boss tries to kill you the first time you have a
chat, give serious thought to going back to an earlier save game.
Unless you like doing things the hard way? ;)

This is by design. If you free too many cities the bosses in the
remaining ones become hostile. It can happen with orc-controlled cities
as well.
Don't ask me how the bosses know you're the one responsible for the other
cities. Maybe they have palantir.

Yes, but not in this case. I hadn't freed /any/ cities in Varant, was
still doing the "extra" quests before going on a liberation spree. ;)

I believe only the Myrtana cities count towards the threshold, but I may
be wrong.

--
"Gothic is nothing for noobs." - Gabriele Neukam 31/10

Nostromo

Michael Cecil

2006-12-13 07:19:32 UTC

Post by Lazarus
I've just encountered a bug for the second time which affects the
storyline in a major way.
So, if Mora Sul's boss tries to kill you the first time you have a
chat, give serious thought to going back to an earlier save game.
Unless you like doing things the hard way? ;)

This is by design. If you free too many cities the bosses in the
remaining ones become hostile. It can happen with orc-controlled cities
as well.
Don't ask me how the bosses know you're the one responsible for the other
cities. Maybe they have palantir.

Yes, but not in this case. I hadn't freed /any/ cities in Varant, was
still doing the "extra" quests before going on a liberation spree. ;)

I believe only the Myrtana cities count towards the threshold, but I may
be wrong.

The Hashishin have their own threshold. Well, remember that the
reputation is separate from the boss hostility. You can have a high
reputation but killing Hashies will still make them hostile to you
eventually. (Same thing with the Orcs.)

--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/hackingvista/

Nostromo

2006-12-13 07:37:31 UTC

Post by Lazarus
I've just encountered a bug for the second time which affects the
storyline in a major way.
So, if Mora Sul's boss tries to kill you the first time you have a
chat, give serious thought to going back to an earlier save game.
Unless you like doing things the hard way? ;)

This is by design. If you free too many cities the bosses in the
remaining ones become hostile. It can happen with orc-controlled cities
as well.
Don't ask me how the bosses know you're the one responsible for the other
cities. Maybe they have palantir.

Yes, but not in this case. I hadn't freed /any/ cities in Varant, was
still doing the "extra" quests before going on a liberation spree. ;)

I believe only the Myrtana cities count towards the threshold, but I may
be wrong.

Understand, but killing all the orcs in Nordmar/Varant won't affect the
Myrtana orcs attitude towards you, correct? Can you free cities in
Nordmar/Varant as well? I thought they were free already...

--
"Gothic is nothing for noobs." - Gabriele Neukam 31/10

Nostromo

Michael Cecil

2006-12-13 08:56:52 UTC

Post by Michael Cecil
The Hashishin have their own threshold. Well, remember that the
reputation is separate from the boss hostility. You can have a high
reputation but killing Hashies will still make them hostile to you
eventually. (Same thing with the Orcs.)

Understand, but killing all the orcs in Nordmar/Varant won't affect the
Myrtana orcs attitude towards you, correct? Can you free cities in
Nordmar/Varant as well? I thought they were free already...

Right, the Myrtana Orcs are separate from the Nordmar and Varant ones. The
Varant cities are controlled by the Hashishin. The fact that they have
slaves is supposed to equate them with the way Orcs run the cities they
hold in Myrtana I think, and the Nomads and equivalent to the Rebels. So
you can free Myrtana from Orcs and Varant from the Hashishin.

Nordmar is somewhat overrun with Orcs, especially one mine in particular
but the cities aren't under their control.

--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/hackingvista/

johns

2006-12-12 21:06:20 UTC

It may be a trigger point problem. I noticed in
Faring that when I first entered the villiage, there
were 2 mercenaries, 2 hunters, and 1 Orc
standing very close in the street. I think I
approached the Mercenary on the right first,
and got quests to get stuff for the Orcs so
I could get in the Castle. I then went to
the Orc in the street, and he seemed to
want to give more quests, plus receive
stuff. Then I went to 2 hunters, and they
were also receptive and gave quests, and
offered to teach me things. I declined for
the moment, and went to the Mercenary
on the left of the street. He gave nearly
the same requests as the first Mercenary,
but I think these were conflicting quests,
and some trigger points were eliminated.
That turned the Hunters indifferent. I went
up to 2 more Orcs and completed part of
the quests, but not enough. Then the 3rd
Orc totally shut up on me ... and I started
getting game crashes in Faring. I came
back to Faring 2 more times, and crashed
each time. Finally, I actually got the right
kind of booze somewhere in Nordmar, so
I came back to Faring, and the 3rd Orc
responded and took the booze, and told
me to report to the 2nd Orc to get into
the castle. No go ... the trigger point was
lost, but I did not crash. Looks like the code
found a way to get out of the loop it was
trapped in. I'll teleport into Faring next
time, and see if that resets the triggers
and the 2nd Orc responds. Also, maybe
I can reset the Hunters if I pay for big hunting
skills. Right now, I don't seem to qualify
for that level of Hunter training.

johns

Master Baiter

2006-12-13 02:32:26 UTC

Post by johns
It may be a trigger point problem. I noticed in
Faring that when I first entered the villiage, there
were 2 mercenaries, 2 hunters, and 1 Orc
standing very close in the street. I think I
approached the Mercenary on the right first,
and got quests to get stuff for the Orcs so
I could get in the Castle. I then went to
the Orc in the street, and he seemed to
want to give more quests, plus receive
stuff. Then I went to 2 hunters, and they
were also receptive and gave quests, and
offered to teach me things. I declined for
the moment, and went to the Mercenary
on the left of the street. He gave nearly
the same requests as the first Mercenary,
but I think these were conflicting quests,
and some trigger points were eliminated.
That turned the Hunters indifferent. I went
up to 2 more Orcs and completed part of
the quests, but not enough. Then the 3rd
Orc totally shut up on me ... and I started
getting game crashes in Faring. I came
back to Faring 2 more times, and crashed
each time. Finally, I actually got the right
kind of booze somewhere in Nordmar, so
I came back to Faring, and the 3rd Orc
responded and took the booze, and told
me to report to the 2nd Orc to get into
the castle. No go ... the trigger point was
lost, but I did not crash. Looks like the code
found a way to get out of the loop it was
trapped in. I'll teleport into Faring next
time, and see if that resets the triggers
and the 2nd Orc responds. Also, maybe
I can reset the Hunters if I pay for big hunting
skills. Right now, I don't seem to qualify
for that level of Hunter training.
johns

It's bugged...I was hit by the same bug in my last game a month ago.
However, my situation was a bit different, the wrong Orc accepted the
special booze, so I'm stucked. I reloaded the game and make sure to get
to the right Orc, but he refuse to accept the booze.

I ended up gulping the booze myself and go on with my own business
elsewhere. I don't need their permission to get to Nordmar - Lars at
Silden can bring me there (at least close enough) and teach me how to
resist cold. If I really want to get in to the damn castle, well, I
really don't need any permission at all, I'll just hack my way in to the
damn place if I want, whenever I want.

Lazarus

2006-12-13 06:49:54 UTC

Post by Master Baiter
It's bugged...I was hit by the same bug in my last game a month ago.
However, my situation was a bit different, the wrong Orc accepted the
special booze, so I'm stucked. I reloaded the game and make sure to get
to the right Orc, but he refuse to accept the booze.

**POSSIBLE SPOILER**

The Nordmar Nogginfog? There is a recipe for it floating around, so you
can learn to brew it yourself to give to the Orc. I don't remember
whether I learned it from the hunter/trapper in the hut at the bottom of
Faring or from somebody in Nordmar.

Anyway, you need to have TWO of them before the Orc will accept it...
when he gives you the quest he says something like "some for himself and
some for the others."

Michael Cecil

2006-12-13 07:21:26 UTC

There's a recipe scroll you can find in one of the Nordmar cities. I
think it's in the Fire Clan but I could be wrong.

Post by Lazarus
Anyway, you need to have TWO of them before the Orc will accept it...
when he gives you the quest he says something like "some for himself and
some for the others."

Yeah, I gave up on that bit and got past by being a hunter. Later I found
the recipe, made a new bottle and finally finished that quest.

--
Michael Cecil
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/
http://home.comcast.net/~safehex/
http://home.comcast.net/~macecil/hackingvista/

GSV Three Minds in a Can

2006-12-13 14:31:20 UTC

Post by Master Baiter
It's bugged...I was hit by the same bug in my last game a month ago.
However, my situation was a bit different, the wrong Orc accepted the
special booze, so I'm stucked. I reloaded the game and make sure to
get to the right Orc, but he refuse to accept the booze.

**POSSIBLE SPOILER**
The Nordmar Nogginfog? There is a recipe for it floating around, so
you can learn to brew it yourself to give to the Orc. I don't remember
whether I learned it from the hunter/trapper in the hut at the bottom
of Faring or from somebody in Nordmar.
Anyway, you need to have TWO of them before the Orc will accept it...
when he gives you the quest he says something like "some for himself
and some for the others."

Yep, IIRC Tippler gives you the recipe in return for the ingredients,
however this was not obvious (I found out by accident when i was next at
a cookpot for some other reason).

You need the Nogginfog (lots!) to forge some sorts of swords.

--
GSV Three Minds in a Can
7,053 Km walked. 1,267Km PROWs surveyed. 23.0% complete.

Trimble Bracegirdle

2006-12-13 02:59:56 UTC

I have & am injoying the game ...but this sort of basic-to-the story
bug ..I have seen to many reports of other similar bugs..
has put me off the main quest untill a good patch comes out.
I'm just pottering around Bashing whatever I may find building
my char. up ..
This approach in Oblivion would drive me mad with boredom.
Mouse
@@@

Nostromo

2006-12-13 04:39:36 UTC

Post by Trimble Bracegirdle
I have & am injoying the game ...but this sort of basic-to-the story
bug ..I have seen to many reports of other similar bugs..
has put me off the main quest untill a good patch comes out.
I'm just pottering around Bashing whatever I may find building
my char. up ..
This approach in Oblivion would drive me mad with boredom.
Mouse
@@@

Very well put Trimble! Whereas G3 just keeps leading me around where the
winds of chance take me & never boring me, I'd absolutely had it with Ob
after 30 hrs. Hell, I've even stopped NWN2 after just a few hours (&
getting to Fort Locke). There's just something so immersive about the
Gothic world that really makes you feel like you're master of your own
destiny & at your own pace. Think I'll skip the main quest until the
very end as well (after a couple more patches ;).

--
"Gothic is nothing for noobs." - Gabriele Neukam 31/10

Nostromo

Lazarus

2006-12-13 06:58:51 UTC